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August 02, 2021

It is episode two and...WE'RE COMING FOR YOU, BROTHER! Wiki-maniacs, your hosts get deep into learning about kayfabe! The commentary on the definition of kayfabe, how kayfabe is used. We break kayfabe this episode because we ...

It is episode two and...WE'RE COMING FOR YOU, BROTHER! Wiki-maniacs, your hosts get deep into learning about kayfabe! The commentary on the definition of kayfabe, how kayfabe is used.

We break kayfabe this episode because we will be reading some fan fiction involving, John Cena and Randy Orton. It definitely came out of nowhere and you can't unhear it.

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[00:00:00] Sean: What is up. Welcome to episode two of Reddit on Wiki. We are the only podcast where we research things exclusively through Reddit and Wikipedia. All right. Coming at you with episode two, it's me, your host, Sean. And I'm here with two of my newest closest friends. Go ahead and introduce yourself from let's start a cult podcast.

[00:00:38] We got

[00:00:39] Josh: you got me Josh hosted the first

[00:00:41] Sean: episode and formerly of the Dumbfoundead podcast, Filipino celebrity himself. I want to call

[00:00:51] John: myself a Filipino celebrity, but it is me the rejected episode. Zero. It desire.

[00:00:58] Sean: What's up boys. How are y'all feeling? [00:01:00] Shit.

[00:01:00] Josh: Good. Good. I just found out John's a celebrity.

[00:01:03] So now I'm debating on whether I should ask him autograph or not.

[00:01:09] John: And you're talking to, you're talking to Josh who found his grift and he's going to be, you know, doing voiceovers for Filipino shows now. Hey,

[00:01:18] Sean: just a white Canadian Filipino blogger, Josh. Yeah, that's true.

[00:01:23] Josh: I'll have to think of a good name for the channel, but

[00:01:27] Sean: I'll make it.

[00:01:28] You got

[00:01:28] John: it. You guys put just Josh in, you know.

[00:01:30] Sean: Ooh,

[00:01:32] Josh: good podcast name. Why haven't I thought of this? You're

[00:01:35] Sean: welcome. You're welcome. Shit, shit. I guess this is Josh. Last episode, leaving us to start

[00:01:40] Josh: just the job I have. I have two Griff's now every episode I'm going to learn a new grift. That's going to be my thing.

[00:01:46] Sean: Well, what's up guys. It's my turn to host this time. Like John and like Josh, I came prepared with a plan, but unlike them, I'm going no script because I don't know how to do that. Okay. [00:02:00] So for my topic today, we're going to go over kayfabe. All right. So if you're not a wrestling fan, we're going to go over what that is.

[00:02:09] And if you are a wrestling fan you can laugh with John and I, as Josh is confused for like the next hour or so you said, okay. SAB K five. No, FAPE my guy.

[00:02:23] Josh: Oh God. I have so many questions already, but

[00:02:25] Sean: continue. All right. So before I get started on reading the, the entrance or the entrance, the fuck, am I saying the first paragraph on the Wikipedia page?

[00:02:36] John, I already know, you know what? This is Josh. What do you think kayfabe means? All right. So you already have the hint that it has to do with the wrestling.

[00:02:46] Josh: I mean, from what I know well about wrestling, which is very little all wrestlers have nicknames. So if I had to go on a, like a guess, I would say it's maybe, maybe a certain wrestlers nickname and he's [00:03:00] famous or infamous for something that he did.

[00:03:03] Am I interesting? Interesting. Warm. Am I, am I cold?

[00:03:07] John: You're cold. My God. I mean, you can be a little

[00:03:11] Sean: bit right though. Okay. Yeah. Cause a name could be, I mean, a name is and could be kayfabe. Kayfabe is a much more general term. All right, John go ahead and say eat. I mean, if I open it up to you, you can just going to go ahead.

[00:03:29] Spoil the whole episode for me,

[00:03:31] John: I'm giving you my, without I'm not going to read the Wikipedia. Okay, perfect. Perfect. But to meet, like to simplify it for Josh, I guess you can kinda dumb it down, but it kind boil it down to it pretty, it's pretty much the mystique of the wrestling business, you know? So it's like, if you've never really like heard of it, like outside, I I've never really heard the word outside the wrestling world, but if you think about it, if you boil it down, it's pretty much like an actor or an actress, truly living up to their character on and off the camera.

[00:03:59] [00:04:00] That's

[00:04:00] Sean: kayfabe. Mm. Okay. Okay, Fabian. All right. So now that we kind of have our guesses as to what kayfabe is, I'm going to go ahead and read the Wikipedia page for kayfabe. All right. So in professional wrestling, kayfabe also called work or worked as a noun is the portrayal of staged events within the industry as quote real or true.

[00:04:25] Specifically the portrayal of competition, rivalries and relationships between participants as being genuine and not staged the term kayfabe has evolved to also become a code word for sorts, for maintaining this quote reality within direct or indirect presence of the general public. Okay. So in America, kayfabe is often seen as the suspension of disbelief that is used to create the non wrestling aspects of promotions, such as feuds, angles, and gimmicks [00:05:00] in a manner similar to other forms of fictional entertainment.

[00:05:04] In relative terms, a wrestler breaking kayfabe during a show would be likened to an actor breaking character on camera. Also, since wrestling is performed in front of a live audience, whose interaction with the show is crucial to its success. Kayfabe can be compared to the fourth wall. Since hardly any conventional fourth wall exists to begin with in general, everything in a professional wrestling show is to some extent, scripted or quote kayfabe, even though at times it is portrayed as real life.

[00:05:40] Very cool. So does, does that make sense to you Josh? Like how the term is used?

[00:05:46] Josh: Yeah, I, I think I, I don't, maybe by the end of the episode, I'll be able to use it in a sentence, but I do have a question that we're going to be probably going to be dumb. I have a few questions, but this is my [00:06:00] main one. So wrestling in like school is like real fighting.

[00:06:07] How did it become this kayfabe fake wrestling in professional? Like when did it, why did it, why is it different? Is it just like different sports.

[00:06:19] Sean: Yeah. So there's professional wrestling, which has always confused me because professional wrestling is like, you know, WWF stage, like stone cold, Steve Austin.

[00:06:29] Well, it's called professional. And then amateur wrestling is like actual collegiate wrestling within the single it on the mat. And the Olympics like Greco, Roman is, is a similar to collegiate, I guess, to amateur wrestling. But yeah, for some reason, I don't know the origins of professional wrestling. But if it feels, I assume I assume promoters did it because you can make more money when you can control what's happening in [00:07:00] there as opposed to straight competition.

[00:07:02] John: Yeah. So a lot of wrestling back then is, is, is mostly territory. So now that WWE, well, it used to be w it used to be www F that turned WWF. There's a lot there. Yeah. There's a lot of regional aspects of it. And, and to the point, like it was very regional. And then I don't know if, you know, an athlete named, do you know someone named Brock Lesnar

[00:07:26] Sean: I've heard of, is that

[00:07:27] John: something there to Brock Lesnar is, is a, is a crossover star.

[00:07:32] So he's not only is he a, a WWE talent, but he also fought for a UFC as a wrestler in in I guess like a pretty much a fighter, pretty much

[00:07:42] Sean: right. MMA is, is mixed martial arts so that he, you know, it's everything wrestling, kickboxing, moiety, all of that. So he started out as a collegiate wrestler then became a professional wrestler to make some money.

[00:07:57] Then went to the NFL. Didn't really [00:08:00] make it went back to WW. Then he did some Japanese wrestling and then he did UFC. God damn. And then back to WWE and now he's just hunting out in the woods somewhere. Yeah. Being a scary man. Right. So, so before I get more into kayfabe and more into some topics to talk about, I wanted to go over some wrestling terms.

[00:08:22] Okay. So kayfabe in general is everything that happens on camera or as part of the show. Right. So there's kayfabe. And then, like we said, in the beginning, there's also shoot. Yeah. So shoot is, you know, the opposite of kayfabe. All right. So there's kayfabe and then there's shoot. And then another word for kayfabe is actually worked.

[00:08:46] So work, shoot kayfabe. Got it. Does that make sense? Okay. So yeah,

[00:08:50] Josh: so, so shooting is

[00:08:53] Sean: breaking shooting. Well shooting is just a straight up being real. So I guess [00:09:00] not breaking the fourth wall shooting would be like a, if you're in a wrestling match and then let's say you brace, our guy does a move. Yeah.

[00:09:07] Some guy doesn't move a little wrong and hurts you. You might get pissed off and shoot and then just start for real fighting somebody. And it just happened. And

[00:09:16] John: I want to, I don't want to confuse you any further, but what Sean just described that's that's called a receipt, giving her a receipt back.

[00:09:23] Sean: Cause you know exactly

[00:09:26] John: when it pretty much, when you, when you do a shoot, you go into business for yourself. Right?

[00:09:31] Sean: Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So also another important term before we move forward is a baby face and heal. I know these are in the, you know, these terms. Go ahead,

[00:09:42] Josh: Josh. Okay. So the heel is like the bad guy of that.

[00:09:46] Quote unquote play or whatever you call wrestling and then the baby face is like the person you're supposed to

[00:09:51] Sean: cheer for. I believe. Yes. Yes, exactly. Nailed it. I'll say this. What do you call it? This is what helped me picture [00:10:00] wrestling and under still enjoyed as an adult is I picture professional wrestling kind of like like a it's pretty much just a movie, except instead of it's like an action musical type deal, you know what I mean?

[00:10:13] Like it's live live performance and they're acting and it's just fun. It's like an action movie, but on Broadway without singing, I mean sometimes actually involving singing.

[00:10:28] Yeah, exactly. So those are the wrestling terms that are going to be important going forward. We have baby face. We have heal. We have work, we have shoot. And then all of that works under the umbrella term case. Okay. I like it. So back in the day in order to keep kayfabe, so the whole idea of kayfabe is to make wrestling fans believe and suspend reality to make them think professional wrestling is real while they're watching it.

[00:10:58] Right. So [00:11:00] in order, in the day they took kayfabe super, super seriously. And I guess it helped because they didn't have social media or anything, but they, they took it super seriously. If you were a baby face, you could only travel with baby faces. If you were a heel, you could only travel with heels. Okay?

[00:11:16] So there's stories of like a baby faces, getting gas at a gas station and the heels drive. I went to the gas station. They noticed the baby faces. They're not even allowed to pump gas at the same place. She have to go to another gas station across the street or further down the road to get gas because they can't be seen together.

[00:11:35] Josh: God damn, that's crazy. I think it'd be funny if they took it a step further, if they saw them getting gas, got out of their car and started fighting with it

[00:11:45] Sean: and beat the shit. Yeah, exactly. But then K Fe belt. I think the kayfabe reason for that would be is that they're not getting fucking paid. You know what I'm saying?

[00:11:55] Right. You can always, you can always find a way to make it a word. I was going to

[00:11:58] Josh: say it would boost [00:12:00] the next fight though. So then you'd get paid more maybe

[00:12:03] Sean: exactly or, you know, and that, and that's what they kind of did in the attitude area. They'd they would mix real life with the kayfabe a little bit.

[00:12:11] There'd be fights and grocery stores fights and hospitals at best would be fights everywhere. So so other stories involving kayfabe I'll go over some famous ones. There's a wrestling feud between a wrestler called Jerry the king Lawler versus a comedian named Andy. So they had a wrestling feud.

[00:12:32] John, you could correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know if they actually had a match. I don't remember if they did, but this is like, this was like in the seventies, they would go on shows like David Letterman and they would like get in each other's faces and make it seem like they really hated each other.

[00:12:49] And they took it so far that when Andy Kaufman died and Jerry Lawler was still wrestling, they interviewed Jerry Lawler about how he feels about Andy Kaufman. And he kept kayfabe, [00:13:00] even though Andy was dead, she said, I, I, you know, he was like I'm sorry to hear that. But you know, I didn't really like Andy that much.

[00:13:08] I hope when I die, they don't ask somebody that hates, hates me to how I feel about him. Cause I, I, I didn't like him then. I don't like them now. And you know, it is what it is. I was like, oh shit, holy shit. You know, do you think he was, he was telling the truth. To this day, he, he says he was damn, but you know, wrestling is such, such a Carnie sport.

[00:13:33] You know what I mean? Like some people really take it to heart. Another huge kayfabe story, John on our Reddit on Wiki, Twitter hinted at this one, it's called the curtain call. So I think in the nineties, there was the WWF, which is now known as WWE and the WCW, right. They were rival companies. So there was a group of wrestlers at the WWF that were [00:14:00] all friends.

[00:14:01] They were called the click. So behind the scenes, they were all friends, but on TV, they were enemies. So they, when they were traveling and stuff, they weren't allowed to travel together. But when they were backstage and no cameras, no fans, they would be best for him. So on two of the wrestlers night two of the wrestlers one wrestler named Kevin what's his name?

[00:14:24] Kevin Nash, Nash diesel, back that diesel back then big sexy, also known as big sexy. And then we had Scott Hall then known as razor Ramon can, I guess

[00:14:36] Josh: who's the heel and who's the baby phase.

[00:14:39] Sean: Oh,

[00:14:39] Josh: go for it. I want to guess razor Ramon was the heel and then the other guy was baby face.

[00:14:46] Sean: So at that time it was opposite.

[00:14:50] Diesel was the heel and then Scott Hall, razor, Ramon. The baby phase, but you know, most of razor Ramone's [00:15:00] run. I think he wasn't healed.

[00:15:01] Josh: I mean, Ray was, sounds like the enemy, you

[00:15:04] Sean: know what I mean? Razor Ramon is, is is a character that I liked as a kid. And now I don't know if he's problematic technically, cause it was very much a white man named Scott Hall, portray cubic Dubin.

[00:15:16] Pretty much just being like a caricature of Scarface. Yeah. It's exactly what it is. So it's kinda I don't know what copying is that brown face, but I dunno. Well, maybe not right

[00:15:31] John: spray tan, like really bad

[00:15:32] Sean: cases. Really bad scraped it. Okay. So, but anyways, those two guys were leaving the company to go to the rival WCW.

[00:15:41] So on their last night it was Scott. It was, yeah, it was Kevin Nash versus Shawn Michaels in a cage match. Okay. Shawn Michaels was also in the clique and their group of friends and he was a baby face and he was the world champion for WWF. Okay. [00:16:00] So they finished their match and then after the match, they hug each other, which is a big no-no because one's a face and then one's a heel.

[00:16:10] And then to add even more confusion to that, or I think back then maybe that could be seen as like a, you know, they just fought it out there hugging that's. Okay. And then Scott Hall comes and he gives Shawn Michaels a hug and then that's okay. That's baby face, baby face. But then triple H another wrestler called triple H comes in, who is a healer at the time and gives everybody a hug and then they all hug.

[00:16:35] And then that's the big no-no because triple H you know, was a bad guy, had no relation to any of these guys. Not as big as they were like on the card. It wasn't like a main event guy. So it made zero sense for him to come out and hug. So that was called the curtain call because as soon as they all hugged and gave each other a little handshake thing, everybody started freaking out,

[00:16:58] Josh: right.

[00:16:59] Is this, [00:17:00] is this when people realize that it was scripted or had people known before that it was scripted.

[00:17:05] Sean: So people had known that it was scripted, but some people refuse to believe that it was scripted until this moment. And then this moment was like a huge, oh, they broke kayfabe, like wrestlers in the back were fucking pissed.

[00:17:18] They're like, oh, they're ruining the business people. Aren't going to think it's real. And it got so bad that triple H the guy that the last guy to come in was punished heavily. Oh,

[00:17:31] John: you don't give him what you're going to give him the wrestling term for that.

[00:17:35] Sean: B. Oh, go ahead.

[00:17:36] John: Oh, Josh has another term when someone is being like that.

[00:17:41] It's it's it's the, the term for it is getting buried. Oh yeah. So he got the, essentially the time

[00:17:48] Sean: he got buried for a long time. So right after that, there's a big tournament to like, that's supposed to build like the next main event guy, triple H was booked to win that [00:18:00] tournament. But since he did the curtain call and broke kayfabe, and it was such a big deal that everybody in the back you know, pretty much had to redo it.

[00:18:09] And then they pick stone cold, Steve Austin to be the guy to win it. And then that shot stone-cold up. And then triple H took many, many years to recover from his thing. He was the only one punished because at the time, like I said, Shawn Michaels champion, there's nothing they could do there. And then the other two guys that was there last.

[00:18:29] Right. Nothing they could do there. So that was a huge kayfabe breaking moment and a time when a lot of people really freaked out and then really figured out that, you know, this thing, isn't a real all

[00:18:42] Josh: the time. Yeah. I guess when it's not being thrown in your face, you can maybe convince yourself that it's real.

[00:18:47] But after that, it'd be pretty hard to

[00:18:51] Sean: really hard to go back.

[00:18:52] Josh: Yeah. Yeah. People beating they're beating each other up and then hugging it out. Like it's hard to believe that any of [00:19:00] it's real it's like when, when I watch hockey, so my equivalent hockey is when they're playing a hard playoff match. And then at the end they've lost, but they're shaking hands.

[00:19:08] Like it's nothing. And they're like chatting and I'm like, no, beat them up.

[00:19:12] Sean: Yeah, exactly. This isn't real.

[00:19:15] John: And it's funny because you mentioned that and I know I mentioned, we kind of mentioned the beginning, that kayfabe was kind of more of a wrestling term, but you're right. Josh, you see that now. And a lot of different sports, like back then in the eighties and the nineties, you'll never see Michael Jordan or Larry Bird giving a handshake to magic Johnson, you know, because they were right on Lakers and Boston or Lakers versus Celtics.

[00:19:39] They're pretty much going down and kill each other. But now with like what, Sean mentioned that the rise of social media and the transparency of these athletes, everyone's friends now, it's, it's crazy. So in a, in a way, kayfabe on all other sports or other, other stuff too, it's, it's pretty much

[00:19:57] Sean: it's broken as well.

[00:19:59] Josh: Yeah. Like in [00:20:00] some ways I respect the disrespect, you know, like I, I, I enjoy it cause it's like, oh, they're as passionate as I am about this. So I could see why wrestling fans could get upset, upset about, about this. So I understand.

[00:20:15] John: And, and there's, there's this like running joke and the they're it, they call them the IWC, which is the internet wrestling community.

[00:20:21] There's a running joke. That's saying it's like a saying, they say like, it's still real to us. Dammit. That's that's that pertains to

[00:20:29] Sean: cafe, edit this episode, put a, I'll put that clip in the guy who's calling. Who's still real to me. Damn it it's still real. It's still,

[00:20:45] but yeah, not only is kayfabe in there. Not only does kayfabe encompass storylines and things like that. It it also encompasses the things that happen inside the ring, during the match. So kayfabe includes, you know, how [00:21:00] to slam somebody without actually, you know, hurting them, how to, you know, dive off the top rope, you know, they look like they're getting hit, but really, you know, they're catching you and things like that.

[00:21:12] So another way that they use kayfabe during the match, that's not used so much in WWF or in. Another big company is called new Japan. They were Japanese wrestling company is something called blade jobs. So back in the day, and now it's coming back up with another company called all elite wrestling.

[00:21:29] But back in the day wrestlers would hide small little razorblades and like their risk tape or in their boot, or maybe even like a little pocket in their trunks or underwear, whatever you want to call it. And if it called for it and the story of the match, they would you know, go away in a corner and a little bit look like they're hurt and kind of sneak the blade out of wherever it's hidden and then cut the top of their hairline in order to have a huge cut and then blood and [00:22:00] wrestling that's called getting color.

[00:22:02] So they thought, you know, so only certain emotions can be brought out of a match if there's. So they would literally for real cut, open their thing as a kid, I always thought it was like blood packets or, you know, but they fucking just smash it. Yeah. Whenever I learned they were legit, like fucking slitting there.

[00:22:25] So if you see some like old wrestlers that are like that, we're big into actually maybe mostly any old wrestler, you could see that they have like little scars around their hairline and then a rest in peace. There's a wrestler called new Jack who was in a lot of hardcore matches or, you know, matches that had a lot of weapons and crazy, no rules type of matches.

[00:22:51] Yeah. Like steel chairs, Kendo sticks, or tables. They used to do bar wire wrapped a lot. And I think it was like, [00:23:00] shoot Barb wire, like real Barb wire shit. You name it. It, yeah. Thumbtacks. His forehead was. Jack, like there was, it looked like a whole nother texture on his forehead because of all the, all the bleeding and all the barbed wire and things like that.

[00:23:16] So if you

[00:23:17] John: want to, if you want to look up like examples of people who are still kind of around, there's ,

[00:23:23] Sean: it's

[00:23:23] John: pretty bad. If you look up, I don't know if doula, the butcher is still alive by his, his is pretty bad too. Like it's, it's insane.

[00:23:30] Sean: God damn. There, there are stories. So back in the nineties for, for you, Josh and all the, I don't know where we're calling our fans though.

[00:23:38] W w WCA, maniac, what do you call it?

[00:23:42] John: That's a good one. What'd you want to do,

[00:23:45] Sean: brother? What are you going to do, brother? All right. I like that. We'll run with that shit. We're back episode two, baby. The origin, but they would, there was [00:24:00] a, there was a wrestling call, a company called extreme championship wrestling, ECDS.

[00:24:05] Where they ran pretty much exclusively, nothing, but these hardcore, no rules matches. And there are stories of guys like after matches being cut by Barb wire, being cut by the edges of the table, you know, cut by the chairs, you know, they would crazy glue their wounds, shut Jesus in order to, you know, heal up and get in the car without getting blood all over their rentals.

[00:24:30] That's crazy. Holy shit. Yeah. And I say rentals because this was another crazy fact I learned about wrestling is they fucking drive. Like they're like they drive like the WWE does not get like a private jet or like chauffeurs or anything. These guys are booking their own flights, getting rental cars, driving to the stadiums and then driving to the other towns.

[00:24:56] To go to the next show. It's still like nonstop and

[00:24:59] John: [00:25:00] still to this day. And to add that as well. I don't know if they'll, I think AEW are our full-time employees, but at least for what I know the wrestlers in WWE, they're all considered independent

[00:25:13] Sean: contractors. Oh yeah. They don't have sports. Those benefits, bro.

[00:25:19] It's insane. That's so this is that kind of, this kind of brings me a, a perfect segue, maybe ruining by calling it a segue. But back in 1989, in order to avoid getting taxed for being an actual sport, Vince McMahon testified to the U S or to the New Jersey state Senate. That wrestling was a work. You know, wrestling is not a real competitive sport.

[00:25:47] That way they can avoid, you know, paying taxes on some of the states for athletic events and to afford to the need, to meet the requirement of having to employ medical professional standing by. [00:26:00] So in order to get by paying them as employees and paying medical staff to take care of them and paying taxes that regular sports have to take care of fans was just like, fuck it.

[00:26:11] Kayfabe is dead. Wrestling is not real guys. It's a, it's a work. What a fucking asshole exactly.

[00:26:20] John: Soon as they, a lot of, a lot of wrestling fans are just, and this is, it's a sad, but they're just waiting for him to expire. Cause he's so I want to say Sean, I don't know if you agree with me on this, but he's, he's, he's just

[00:26:32] Sean: out of touch.

[00:26:33] Yeah. Yeah. So that's a huge fan with wrestling or a huge thing with the wrestling fans right now is that. Vince is just I, he's kind of a crazy man. There's like stories that come like you could write a whole book on just like Vince McMahon stories, like personal stories. He's a strange, strange individual.

[00:26:54] He likes ketchup on a steak. A hill is sorry. A bunch of weird shit. [00:27:00] So, oh, go ahead.

[00:27:01] Josh: Is he the one that did the XFL? Yes. Yes. Okay. So yeah, he is

[00:27:05] Sean: pretty crazy, but he's a wild man. So what do you call it? Like a a bunch of wrestlers wanting to unionize and start like a union. That way they could be like, you know, paid correctly and have benefits and health insurance and blah, blah, blah.

[00:27:21] And then I think Vince just ended up firing a bunch of them, at least firing one of them as kind of just like a see what's going to happen type of deal. And that was like, that was resource. Like that was like. November last year. I want to

[00:27:35] John: say it was, I want to say it was was it Selena Vega?

[00:27:39] Sean: Yes. She's now back with the company she's back, but another clean deleted, she deleted all of her union tweets.

[00:27:45] Cause she's just like, fuck it. I lost my job. I'm not going to lose it again. Jesus. And you know how

[00:27:50] John: crazy this bastard is. And please Vincent, man, if you ever hear this, please don't Sue us. We don't have any, yeah. We're not trying to defame you. It's just taking of

[00:27:58] Sean: money. Here's an ad, [00:28:00]

[00:28:01] John: right? Yeah. So pretty much another crazy thing is, you know, we mentioned that they're independent contractors.

[00:28:06] They're not really full-time employees. So you would think as an independent contractor, you can kind of venture out and let's say, you want to start, you want to start a Twitch account or you want to start a YouTube channel. But since Vince McMahon owns your rights as that name, because you are famous because of that name, you can't have a Twitch account.

[00:28:30] That's. You can't have a cameo accounts and all that. GABAA YouTube channel. That's not approved by that company. So that's why they were trying to unionize. Could

[00:28:40] Sean: you, oh, like an example of that would be like using their name. Maybe we didn't explain this. Oh yeah. So a lot of wrestlers don't use their real life name.

[00:28:51] They'll use a work name. Gotcha. So like a whole Cogans real name. Terry Bollea and whole Kogan had said Terry [00:29:00] something. Yeah. It's terrible. Exactly. Stone cold. Steve Austin is Steve Williams. LSD. Was it Steve Williams? Not Williams. Steve Williams. He changed his name to Steve Austin because his first promotion that he went to already had a guy named Dr.

[00:29:14] Death, Steve Williams. So they made him change his name, Shawn. Well,

[00:29:19] John: you can bottom like bottom, like a marketable name. Not at

[00:29:23] Sean: all. Exactly. Show like Showtime names, right. Names for their character, right? Yeah. But these names are property of the WWF. So whenever they leave the company and they want to do something else, they can't use the name that they were famous under because the name is owned.

[00:29:44] Right? Yeah. So that's why a lot of wrestlers either now wrestle by their name or they buy the rights to their name, like Samoa Joe and AGA styles. There's some mojo and AGA styles, no matter where they go things like that. But a lot of [00:30:00] times, you know, unless you're a big player, you don't really have the clout to try and keep your name.

[00:30:04] So they'll change your name. They'll make you famous. And then whenever they're done with you, good luck. Does the rock own his name? I don't think the rock technically owns the rock. I don't think so either,

[00:30:16] Josh: but everyone knows why he's the rock.

[00:30:18] Sean: Yeah. But I mean he's beyond untouchable at this point. Yeah.

[00:30:22] Oh yeah. And he, he, him and Vince are so buddy, buddy, cause they've made each other so much money. Like I'm sure he has no issues. If he wanted to buy the rock. Vince would probably give it to him. I mean, he bought XFL

[00:30:33] John: from

[00:30:34] Sean: VIN, so that's true. That's true. All right. So another way they use kayfabe is taking real life stories and events and putting it into the story to make some of the most famous stories.

[00:30:46] An example of this would be wrestlers, Matt Hardy, edge and Leda. So in the late nineties edge and Matt Hardy were huge rivals and Lita was the manager of Matt Hardy. [00:31:00] And not only was she his manager, but she was also like manager as in cafe manager. Like she would, they would walk together on screen and stuff.

[00:31:08] Right. So not only were they kayfabe like that, but in real life shoot, they were dating and it was, they were dating for. I don't know the exact years, but pretty much late nineties to mid two thousands. Nice. So kind of towards the end of their relationship, things got Rocky and then she started to date his rival, but his kayfabe rival, but his chute friend, a wrestler named edge.

[00:31:37] So I think I've heard of the edge. Yeah. He's Canadian. Yeah. So we all, we all know each other, all the white Canadian guys know each other. Right. He's my neighbor. Yeah. Edge. So watch edge and lead us, start dating pretty much immediately after Matt and Lita break [00:32:00] up. And then right around the same time Matt got fired from the WWF, you know, cause they just released people every night.

[00:32:08] He got fired. And then there was a whole real life thing where in interviews, he was trash talking lead in edge. He was calling them both traders and blah, blah, blah. They went behind his back and blah, blah, blah, trash talking WWE the WWE now at that time. So that got so much traction in real life. And that WW hired him back and then put them immediately into a storyline.

[00:32:35] So actually fight each other, you know, I mean, it was kayfabe. They, they realized they could make money off of it, but, you know, they use that real life situation to put into like six months of story and money-making and things like that.

[00:32:52] Josh: Jesus, I mean, I guess a good way to resolve your issue,

[00:32:57] Sean: but sort of, yeah,

[00:32:59] Josh: yeah, I [00:33:00] guess not really.

[00:33:00] Because if you think, like, if you were to think if that they were really fighting, it would be a good way to maybe solve their issues. They're actually rehearsing all the time together. Right. So they're just seeing each other so much that that would, yeah, definitely not be a good thing. Like imagine, imagine your girlfriend or wife just starts dating someone and then you have to work with them every day for six months.

[00:33:23] Like that would be real shitty.

[00:33:25] Sean: Exactly. And it was a pretty long

[00:33:27] John: program too. I want to say it was about four to six months,

[00:33:30] Sean: right? Shit. Ah, it has to be, and they were doing like, you know, WWF has known to, you know, drag things out and, you know, do it too many times, but they had tons of regular matches.

[00:33:42] They did cage matches. They did hardcore matches. They I'm sure that by the end of it, they had earned each other's respect and they were like, you know, we just made a fuck ton of money. It's cool. But still they found a way to take real life and make it into the storyline. Another huge thing that they do.[00:34:00]

[00:34:00] Similar correct me if I'm wrong. But like we said, at the beginning of the podcast, most of what we say is wrong. Like 2011, maybe there was a wrestler named cm, punk. He was huge with like the internet fans, because he was, you know, he was smaller. He was cool. He was tattooed. He came up from what they call the Indies.

[00:34:22] So like to casual fans, anything that's not WWE is the Indies. So he was in like big Indies, like ring of honor and things like that. So people had watched his career, you know, throughout the Indies and then come up and be a big time star in WWE. But right before his contract ended, he wasn't planning on re on signing again because he was legitimately sick and tired of the company.

[00:34:48] And then his second to last night on TV, they said, Hey, we're going to give you the microphone. You could just air your grievances, say whatever you want to say. And then, [00:35:00] then the end of the show, he cut like a five minute promo. A promo is when wrestlers just talk on the mic and say whatever they need to say.

[00:35:09] So you kind of like a five minute promo, which is now famously known as the pipe bomb. And he pretty much just like broke the fourth wall. A bunch of times was calling wrestlers they're their real names. And they were, he was saying how things work behind stage? You know, how bad it is and blah, blah, blah.

[00:35:28] And then that got so big that they, they made him the biggest star they had just won. The world championship was on covers of everything was on the cover of the video game was their biggest.

[00:35:41] Josh: He fought in UFC didn't he?

[00:35:44] Sean: And he bombed, he was terrible.

[00:35:46] Josh: I was gonna say he got his ass kicked as what I remember.

[00:35:48] Yeah. He

[00:35:48] Sean: got his ass kicked shoot shoot, fighting cm. Punk is not good at, but if it's a work, he can, he can sell a story again.

[00:35:57] Josh: Well, I mean, good for him for airing of grievances and then [00:36:00] making a fuck ton of money. But

[00:36:02] Sean: exactly. I mean,

[00:36:03] John: who was sneaking this? Doesn't want to do that by the way, Sean. I know Jade is a Jade from she's a big listener of Dumbfoundead and she listens to a lot of shots and thoughts as well.

[00:36:12] So I know the fact that we're talking about cm punk right now. She's probably getting excited. So hi Jade,

[00:36:18] Sean: what's up Jake?

[00:36:19] Josh: How's it going? Why don't you listen to that podcast?

[00:36:25] Sean: Not yet soon, soon. So that is it for this first segment. And then when we, we're going to take a little break for some advertisement and maybe some.

[00:36:36] Other stuff who knows, but when we come back, we'll go ahead and jump right into the Reddit section of my quote-on-quote research. All right. So see you guys in a little bit. Do you, did you, do you,

[00:36:50] Robert: hello obstacles when you grab your multipass at drink and come sit with us, let's pick each other's brain. We want you to be part of our intimate [00:37:00] conversation about science fiction topics. Let's do this, join us, and let's talk about science fiction topics and books, movies, TV shows, and games at science fiction.

[00:37:09] Remnant. You are invited to listen and listen. Now on apple podcasts, Spotify, audible, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And don't forget your multipass. And we are back. What is up wicked maniacs. We have a name for you guys now. So what is up guys? We're going to jump right into the Reddit section of a, my episode.

[00:37:34] So what I did is I found some Reddit posts about kayfabe. So this one is from user joker, the Sylvia, and it's talking about wrestlers, orange Cassidy, war hosts, or horse, not wool hose. I don't know what that is. Warhorse horse Warhorse. Say that five times fast or horse for horse orange Cassidy war, horse.

[00:37:59] No, just more [00:38:00] horse, just more horse. Okay, sick. It's just me. Alright. So orange Casty or horse Samoa and the idea of authenticity and wrestling. All right. So I found this article on that article, but post on Reddit and I thought it was pretty interesting. It's a good way of explaining how kayfabe is working in today's environment.

[00:38:22] Okay. So the concept of quote, realism and modern wrestling has been a constant sticking point for a lot of fans. There's a lot of conflict between two general camps, the kind of Jim cornet S camp that values realism and legitimacy, and the presentation of professional wrestling and believes that committing to a realistic fight like presentation and integrity of character and performer is key.

[00:38:49] And on the other side, you have the modern meadow wrestling fan who likes things like Chuck Taylor's invisible hand grip. DDTs comedic wrestling and they [00:39:00] see wrestling as a medium that has been revealed as fully faked choreographed. And they see no reason not to embrace the truth and lean into it for creative freedoms.

[00:39:10] It allows largely in the vein of comedy. So for the listeners and for Josh, if you don't know what Chuck Taylors, invisible hand grenade is, it is exactly what it sounds like. This wrestler will pull invisible grenade out of his pants, buy it out, the lid, throw it. And then everybody acts like it's a real grenade.

[00:39:31] Josh: So it's a, this links turned into a, just like an improv team, basically.

[00:39:39] Sean: Almost exactly. So there's like a, like it said is there's two camps of wrestling fans, ones that want the hyper realistic and ones that want, you know, that are cool with the comedic side. And then I would say a majority of fans, or at least the majority of modern fans [00:40:00] are somewhere in between.

[00:40:01] They like to mix the real stuff with the comedic stuff. And this article is pretty much just saying that the only way to make it work. And this is something that a, those wrestlers that I mentioned earlier, the tongue twister or horse Samoa, Joe and orange Cassidy do is they go so fully into their character on camera and off camera that no matter what it makes sense.

[00:40:26] So they have orange Casty is a wrestler on a all elite wrestling. What his, his whole gimmick a gimmick is like their character or type of type of thing like that. His whole gimmick is that he doesn't try. So he's like really lazy. He'll have his hands in his pockets. He'll walk around, he'll wrestle with sunglasses on.

[00:40:47] So his, his whole thing is just being lazy and not trying. And then it, it just works. He's always that way, unless you like fire him up, like you beat him up or you beat his friends up, [00:41:00] besides that, he'll always be like really lazy, you know? Yeah. And the same thing with Samoa, Joe. Yeah. It is humongous right now.

[00:41:09] He's a rescue. I did not think would be huge, but he is the millennials. Yeah, exactly. Love that gun and wrestling. The term is, is you're over when you're, when the fans are super into the that's called over. Oh, so he's super over right now, but so pretty much the article is stating that wrestlers like orange Casty Warhorse Samoa, Joe, and they mentioned MGM, M J F and Eddie Kingston as characters who are in and out of the ring, their character, no matter what, they kind of bring the old school style of kayfabe, but also they do ridiculous comedic things sometimes.

[00:41:50] So like MJF, his whole character is being like a rich, a rich asshole is his catch phrase is I'm better than you and you know it. Yep. [00:42:00] Nice. So his whole thing is he's that way, no matter what he'll be interviewed for, you know, talk radio or he'll be interviewed, you know, if they travel and he'll be interviewed for podcasts and he will be his character, he doesn't turn it off ever.

[00:42:16] Josh: We should have a mom,

[00:42:17] Sean: even at audit. Yeah. Even at autograph signings, kids will go up in his line and then he'll fucking lick them off my picture. And so much to where dads will like try and fight him in line. Oh Jesus. So I thought that was super interesting. And then another Reddit post I found. So can

[00:42:37] Josh: I, can I go off for that?

[00:42:37] Cause go for it because you were stating like there's, there's two sides, like two camps basically, and people are kind of in the middle, but I, I almost appreciate the The polar opposites. Like I, if I was watching wrestling and I knew it was a hundred percent real and these people were like beating the shit out of each other, I would appreciate that.

[00:42:55] Like, that would be very entertaining to watch. It probably wouldn't be as long. And there won't be as cool moves, [00:43:00] but it's like boxing or UFC. You're watching people try and like prevent the other person from killing them. Like it's, it's entertaining in that, in that form. But then on the other stage, it's almost really entertaining to see where they could go if they just had a free reign of, Hey, use your imagination, improv, whatever the fuck you want.

[00:43:20] And then just see what ridiculous stuff they come up with. I think that would be super interesting to watch too. I mean, I'm probably alone in this, as you said, most people are kind of in the middle, but I think it'd be cool if they did like, like split it into two w WFS or whatever you're calling it.

[00:43:37] Sean: Yeah. So there's, there's a lot of like a WWF. It's kinda like seen as like the MBA of wrestling sort of, or the NFL or the NHL, you know, it's like, oh, maybe professional wrestling. Yeah. Major leaks. It is professional wrestling is the w E okay. But, but really there [00:44:00] is a whole bunch of other companies that may not be as big with casuals, but offer a different and things, but it's, but they're still professional wrestling, right?

[00:44:11] Yeah. So there's a company in Japan and called DDT and they almost do exclusively nothing, but comedy matches and like weird stuff. They had a wrestler named Coda booshie. He wrestled a straight up, blow up doll. And like the blow up doll was like flipping him around. He was slamming the blowup doll to blow up doll was picking him up and

[00:44:33] Josh: slamming him somehow, see this shit.

[00:44:37] John: Exactly. Oh my God, there's this. Oh, that's the next grift person. The allegations that were said, but there's this guy named Joey Ryan.

[00:44:46] Sean: Oh yeah. I didn't mention him. He's he's awful human being. He's an

[00:44:49] John: awful human being. There's a lot of like, this is not even a speculation at this point. I don't know if it was all real.

[00:44:55] He has his finishing move. It's his finisher is what they're like [00:45:00] specialty move of what they're known for his opponent literally grabs him by the Dick. Okay. And then he flexes, he goes like, ah, he flexes on his Dick and his opponent like seizes his cramping. Right? Like, it's just like, oh my guy's Dick is so powerful.

[00:45:16] And then he would just like, move like this and then his opponent will flip and then it got so ridiculous to the point that there would be sometimes a train like that. Okay. So it would be like one person. Joey Ryan's junk and another, person's going to grab the other person's from behind. And it's like a human centipede of grabbing and everyone would flip in the same time.

[00:45:38] Oh, people, people, people love that shit. And it's hilarious, but he's an asshole as a person. Another caveat on a caveat of that, I know WWE is kind of seen as like the big powerhouse, but when they have like the live shows that your Monday night Roz, your, your NXT lives your Friday night smack downs, well, people don't realize is that [00:46:00] pre pandemic.

[00:46:00] There was a lot of how shows, how shows pretty much gave a lot of these wrestlers who are not really seen on TV yet. The free reign to get creative.

[00:46:10] Sean: That's when the, how shows are, are not, they're not

[00:46:13] John: televised at all. So they they're just like in your small, it's a smaller venue. It's probably like a, a hall somewhere.

[00:46:19] Usually there's like 15,000 in a, in a, in the live event, like a Monday night or a Friday night SmackDown. Right. This is probably like more intimate about like, you know, 5,000 to 7,000 people give or take wrestlers tend to be more loose. Like they can try out a new moves, they can try out different personalities.

[00:46:39] There's been instances where like, you can flip, you can try, like, maybe you're a baby face on a regular show, but this night you get to be a heel. So that's when they get to experiment and get to try things out. And it's it gets pretty interesting, but like to, to Sean's point, like there is a lot of different promotions out there that puts out products for

[00:46:59] Sean: everybody, [00:47:00] right?

[00:47:00] Yeah. Okay. I would say right now, The most like catering to every single kind of fan would be all elite wrestling. And they started up like two years ago. They have, they have, you know, the American style storylines, you know, bleeding and crazy stuff and kind of like soap opera, but then they also have like the comedy stuff, but then they also have kind of like Japanese style, which is like really hard hitting and things like that.

[00:47:27] And then they have the Mexican style, they have Lucia Libra. So that's probably the best company right now to watch just because they kind of cater to everybody at certain points in the show. Okay. I can appreciate that. Good. All right. I got two more Reddit links. We'll try and go through them pretty quickly here.

[00:47:43] So this one is from Mello Jr. This is what are some of the strangest kayfabe logic that we have just accepted? Okay. John, you could kind of put yourself in this. You can kind of give your own if you want, but I'll read some, this one is that. [00:48:00] Wrestlers can do all types of flips turns and dives off the top rope and through the rope and out of the ring.

[00:48:08] But when they try to climb a ladder, it is the hardest thing as possibly ever existed. So if you watch professional wrestling, they have a thing called a ladder match, right? So the belt or whatever is hanging up from the ceiling and they have to climb a ladder to get it. Okay. So technically, you know, doesn't sound that difficult, but when they climb that ladder boy, they are, oh, I'm so hurt.

[00:48:35] Oh, it's so impossible. And then five seconds later, they're doing double back, flips off the top rope, jumping through the ring, slamming each other, but then when they got to climb the ladder again, they're like, oh no. And it takes me five minutes. So that's a huge thing. Another person wrote, that's kind of like

[00:48:50] Josh: superhero movies, sorry.

[00:48:52] Oh no, no, no. Yeah, go for it. Like it's like right before the apex of the big fight and they're like heeled over and like, they have no strength [00:49:00] left. And then like five minutes later, they're like doing flips and shit like, like spike. I just watched excited man far from home and he was like, kick the shit out of, and then he goes and just does a bunch of flips and destroys all of the drones.

[00:49:13] And it's no problem.

[00:49:14] Sean: He just closes his eyes. Yeah, fucking another one that says, and Joshua, like this one that in theory, the WWE has no qualms with hiring the undead supernatural beings, a burn victim and crazy Colts to fight in a traveling circus and behave and, and respect the current rules of professional wrestling.

[00:49:40] All right.

[00:49:40] Josh: So they have

[00:49:41] Sean: to have a wrestler. They have Colts. There's a family. The Wyatt family is a Colt. They have a cold called the dark order. I have adult called the acolytes. Oh, my God. They have a lot of, they have a lot of shit, Josh. I think you would. I really like it. Even

[00:49:56] John: know the Bible says that the ministry of darkness played by the [00:50:00] undertaker back in the

[00:50:00] Sean: nineties.

[00:50:01] So we're all supposed to believe is a straight up dead guy. Yeah. Just walking around.

[00:50:07] John: Speaking of the undertaker, we were talking about gimmicks and like kayfabe. Okay. And this guy and Josh, you said, you mentioned that you kind of appreciate characters who are fully into themselves. Right? And the undertaker, I think to me is like the classic.

[00:50:22] He's like the classic WWE guy, every interview that he's done for probably the past 30 years, super by the book, he never goes out of character, but I think he started to see like the cultural shift on how kayfabe is like in the modern era. Now, right now you see now you see him like going on like UFC events.

[00:50:41] Now you see him posting stuff on social media. But back then, like this guy was. He was, he was like the most renowned school, most old school person and that company, but like you said, times are changing and, and he's starting to see that shift in the culture. So,

[00:50:57] Josh: well, good for him for adjusting. Yeah. [00:51:00]

[00:51:00] Sean: So I got one more Reddit link.

[00:51:03] This is from username, Kali wog. There's a new Twitter account that tweets nothing but excerpts from rot, erotic WWE fan fiction. And it is something. So what I've done here is gone to that Twitter account for research, gone to their website, found the shortest erotic WWE fan fiction I could find. And we're going to end the episode by us reading it together as hosts.

[00:51:35] So I've just sent it in our little chat on discord. Okay. We'll just trade off paragraphs, I guess I'll go. And then John will go. And then Josh will go and we'll just trade off paragraphs reading and erotic fan fiction. Okay. You guys ready? Let me just, let

[00:51:50] John: me just figure out how to open the chat.

[00:51:54] Josh: I have to agree to the contents within this website.

[00:51:58] Sean: All right. [00:52:00] Wicked maniacs. We are reading cookies written by eyes to the underscore sky. I'll start us off. The summary is arguing. Hesitant has its advantages. If the makeup sex is good, seen slash Orton smut PWP, I don't know what that stands for. And I'm scared to find out. All right, so I'll go ahead and start.

[00:52:22] Josh: No, no. I was going to say, I think John has to play Johnny. Just because he's John. Oh my God.

[00:52:29] Sean: We're going to be playing everything brother. You better believe it. All right, so I'll start. And then John will go and then Josh will go and we'll just switch it off paragraph by paragraph. All right, here we go.

[00:52:39] Sounds good. I tried try and make it as a, you know, what do, what you will. All right. So quote, no MTV sucks. Randy whined as John turned on MTV. So Randy always in

[00:52:55] Josh: me, or go ahead, go ahead.

[00:52:59] Sean: What's the order? [00:53:00] No, it's John than Josh dammit.

[00:53:02] John: Josh. You're good. I'm going to read this in a deep voice. Randy glared at his crude lover.

[00:53:08] Fine. Randy stormed out of the bedroom only, too much back into getting John's face, but you're not getting any mum your shit like cookies. I'm baking.

[00:53:22] Josh: John's face fell is Randy smirked only to glare as John grinned again. So I'll have Adam bring me some more or something. Brett had him bring me some Betty crocker

[00:53:32] Sean: jerk.

[00:53:33] Randy. Grell storming off as John laughed, watching MTV

[00:53:37] John: bitch, John called loud enough for Randy to hear it downstairs in the kitchen. Yes, I get to

[00:53:42] Josh: say the C-word cunt. Randy yelled back

[00:53:47] Sean: slut. John retaliated.

[00:53:50] John: You fucking Cocksucking Jack ass mother fucker. Randy yelled angrily as John snickered quietly.

[00:53:57] How he loved to get Randy in these? [00:54:00]

[00:54:00] Sean: No. Sorry. Thanks all wrong.

[00:54:06] Oh, this is the uncomfort that I wanted.

[00:54:08] Josh: I love it. No. Sorry, Randy, your, the cocksucker John called winching as he heard a pan drop. Oh, oh, oh. He murmured getting up as Randy came, flying up the stairs, lunging himself towards John shit, John growled catching them and slamming them on the bed.

[00:54:30] Sean: Here we go. Now what, Randy, John taunted him with a smirk.

[00:54:35] I gotta read this next

[00:54:36] John: fucking fire. Got up. Fucking

[00:54:37] Sean: read it, bro. Like, all

[00:54:39] John: right, fuck me.

[00:54:45] Wait. Now I gotta say the sire. Fuck me, Randy growl. Does he catch on God and the mouth? I think I can do that. John murmur, every article of clothing and his way on your knees gone[00:55:00]

[00:55:01] John ground as Randy quickly. John grabbed a condom and a tube of loo. He stopped rolling on the condom and moving himself before grabbing Randy's hips. Safe. Sex is important roughly inside God I'm sweating guys. This

[00:55:18] Josh: is you're breaking cafe.

[00:55:21] Sean: They're definitely

[00:55:21] Josh: break a game thing. Oh, I think I got the worst one though.

[00:55:25] Randy threw his head back, letting out a growl mixed between pain and pleasure as John began slamming into him roughly over

[00:55:33] again,

[00:55:35] Sean: already guys

[00:55:37] Josh: heard, or Randy growled as John nibbled at his show, he grabbed Randy shoulder for leverage. As he ripped Randy back pushing forward. You liked that, huh? Slut talked to Randy as round slamming back against you.

[00:55:56] Sean: I fear I've made a mistake on episode two. I brought it. I brought it to [00:56:00] far guys. Here we go. Let's meet. Yeah, really? Yeah. Let's finish it up. Really? Yes. He cried out. I'm good. I'm gonna fuck.

[00:56:16] Josh: Randy cried out. As he came

[00:56:19] Sean: all over John's hand, John thrusted, harder growling. As he too came falling on top of Randy. John grabbed the remote as an afterthought, flipping the TV off.

[00:56:33] John: Now can I have some cookies, John ass with a smart Randy busted out laughing.

[00:56:40] Josh: What am I going to do with you? Johnny, Randy, he slipped out of bed and headed towards the kitchen.

[00:56:47] John smirk. Does he leaned back and closed his eyes? And he got a good fuck and gets his cookies too, but he's good.

[00:56:57] Sean: And scene.[00:57:00]

[00:57:03] Oh man, expect fan fiction from that, just the end of every episode I do will include

[00:57:12] Josh: some sort of fan fiction,

[00:57:14] Sean: baby. Here we go.

[00:57:16] John: I am so sweaty and that's not because of Leslie it's because that was so uncomfortable.

[00:57:23] Sean: Oh, incredibly uncomfortable.

[00:57:25] Josh: Oh my God.

[00:57:26] Sean: I, I pretty much picked the one with like the lowest amount of words.

[00:57:31] So this is like big, oh 2000 words. There are like novels on this website, like scary, like 71,000 words, 11 chapters. I'm like Jesus Kariah Y Y why? Why indeed

[00:57:48] Josh: is this what they want the WWE to become is just a sex fan. I don't know. I mean, they'd probably pay for that to be honest there's days, there's

[00:57:56] Sean: a Hab have literally fanfiction for [00:58:00] anything.

[00:58:01] That's true.

[00:58:02] John: I'm stopped watching. This is the last time I'm watching wrestling next year. I'm never

[00:58:05] Sean: going to see John Siena and Randy Orton the same again. Never, never. What am I going to do with you, Johnny?

[00:58:15] John: You got a good buck and some cookies

[00:58:17] Sean: too. What? An awful line to end

[00:58:21] Josh: the line with, like it was masterfully crafted and then just really shit.

[00:58:26] The bed on the last paragraph there. You got a good fucking cookies

[00:58:30] Sean: too. Life is good with that being said, I it's probably better. We ended off there. I got some plugs. I'll let you guys say some plugs as well. My plug is for you guys to follow us on Reddit, on Wiki, on Instagram and Twitter. Also make sure to leave us a rating and a review on apple podcasts and pod chaser.

[00:58:53] And yeah, besides that. You can follow my other podcast called shots on thoughts. We released same day. So you can [00:59:00] get double Decker every Monday. And yeah, that's my only plugs for today. John, what do you got?

[00:59:06] John: Well, we still have like a backlog of the Dumbfoundead if you want to listen to that, by all means, but this is, this is our new show now.

[00:59:13] So make sure to support us, like, like Sean mentioned, if you, like, if you enjoy us, please leave us a review. Follow us on all the social media platforms. Most importantly, engage with us. You know, if you got any stories you want, you have any suggestions that you want us to cover in a terrible way. Maybe Sean can find another erotic fucking fanfiction on this ship.

[00:59:31] I just thought, man, we're on social media. We're on Twitter at Reddit on Wiki. We're on Instagram, Reddit on Wiki. If you want to email us, read it on That voice

[00:59:42] Josh: by only I only plug is a deaf. Go try. Randy's cookies. They're worth

[00:59:49] Sean: a lot. Apparently they're kind of salty, right? Jesus Christ.[01:00:00]

[01:00:00] John: I got anymore because

[01:00:01] Sean: it's like, whoa, John's seen adjusts. Might they'll never see him coming, dude. Literally. Yeah. Can't see me. Jesus.

[01:00:12] Josh: Yeah. That's my plug. I'm good.

[01:00:16] Sean: Well, that's it for this week on Reddit on Wiki. Go ahead and listen to episode 1, 3, 0, and all the meet the hosts. This is our launch dates.

[01:00:25] So get all the episodes in that you can, we appreciate our listens and the love and yeah, that's it for this week. We'll see you guys next week later. Canceled canceled, canceled. Definitely episode two.