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Sept. 13, 2021

The Donner Party | Hastings is Not Hasty


Welcome back WikiManiacs! You have made it this far, and we can't believe it's Episode 9 already. This week, we talk about one of the most fascinating tales in modern history: The Donner Party. Sit back, relax, or hop on your car equipped with functional GPS, because this one is going to be a wild ride.

According to Wikipedia: “The Donner Party (sometimes called the Donner–Reed Party) was a group of American pioneers who migrated to California in a wagon train from the Midwest. Delayed by a multitude of mishaps, they spent the winter of 1846–1847 snowbound in the Sierra Nevada mountain range. Some of the migrants resorted to cannibalism to survive, eating the bodies of those who had succumbed to starvation, sickness and extreme cold.

The Donner Party departed Missouri on the Oregon Trail in the spring of 1846, behind many other pioneer families who were attempting to make the same overland trip. The journey west usually took between four and six months, but the Donner Party was slowed after electing to follow a new route called the Hastings Cutoff, which bypassed established trails and instead crossed the Rocky Mountains' Wasatch Range and the Great Salt Lake Desert in present-day Utah. The desolate and rugged terrain, and the difficulties they later encountered while traveling along the Humboldt River in present-day Nevada, resulted in the loss of many cattle and wagons, and divisions soon formed within the group.

By early November, the migrants had reached the Sierra Nevada but became trapped by an early, heavy snowfall near Truckee Lake (now Donner Lake) high in the mountains. Their food supplies ran dangerously low, and in mid-December some of the group set out on foot to obtain help. Rescuers from California attempted to reach the migrants, but the first relief party did not arrive until the middle of February 1847, almost four months after the wagon train became trapped. Of the 87 members of the party, 48 survived the ordeal. Historians have described the episode as one of the most fascinating tragedies in California history, and in the entire record of American westward migration.[1]

This week's promo is from our friend at Morbidology. You can find all their information at https://www.patreon.com/morbidology

RESOURCES

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party

https://www.history.com/topics/westward-expansion/donner-party

https://www.legendsofamerica.com/ca-donnerparty/

https://www.kqed.org/news/11844011/donner-party-pt-1

https://www.onlinenevada.org/articles/donner-party

Today's episode is brought to you by HelloFresh!

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Transcript
Emily-Morbidology:

Morbid ology is a weekly true grind podcast hosted by me.

Emily-Morbidology:

Emily G.

Emily-Morbidology:

Thompson, author of unsolved child murders, unsolved murders, cults,

Emily-Morbidology:

uncovered and mysteries on covered 9 1 1 emergency my husband and I need an

Emily-Morbidology:

ambulance each week on morbid ology.

Emily-Morbidology:

I uncover a new, true crime case using investigative research

Emily-Morbidology:

combined with source audio,

John:

snatched it from my side.

John:

Took it.

John:

I just hit her

Emily-Morbidology:

with it more, but only she is a victim focused podcasts

Emily-Morbidology:

that mostly covers cases that aren't widely documented in mainstream media.

Emily-Morbidology:

I also like to take an in-depth look at any systemic failures, which

Emily-Morbidology:

had a part to play in the crime.

John:

You know why you're here,

Josh:

gray home invasion gone, terribly

Emily-Morbidology:

wrong.

Emily-Morbidology:

Listen, the morphology across all podcast plans.

John:

Welcome back to Reddit on Wiki.

John:

Just want to say congratulations.

John:

You have made it all the way to episode nine with us and we have

John:

yet to be canceled for those of you who don't know who I am.

John:

I am.

John:

And I do have a confession to make.

John:

I secretly ate water burger over the weekend and I was not

John:

completely disgusted, but I'm still team in and out gang all day.

John:

It is all your boy, John and I am joined today with my amazing cohost.

John:

First up, his voice alone brings all the boys to the yard and we're surprised he

John:

hasn't been dumped by his girlfriend for all the PSAs readings we make him do.

John:

He is also the host of the lest articled podcast.

John:

It is Josh shell.

John:

What is up?

John:

My guy?

Josh:

Not much, man.

Josh:

Not much.

Josh:

My girlfriend is in the room again for this recording.

Josh:

So don't make me read anything else.

Josh:

Show

John:

do not worry.

John:

Sean is not hosting today.

John:

So I think we're safe.

John:

Oh, thank

Sean:

God.

John:

And rounding up the three Amigos.

John:

He famously doesn't write any scripts for this show because he

John:

doesn't want to make us look bad.

John:

And legend has it that he's the man that cm punk borrowed the best in the world.

John:

Nickname from he is a Houston, Texas legend.

John:

None other than Sean Salvino what's happening, bro.

John:

Not too

Sean:

much.

Sean:

My guy.

Sean:

Riding the high of a, you finally seeing the wave.

Sean:

That is what a burger.

Sean:

It's nice to be here.

Sean:

We're all on the same page for once.

Sean:

And yeah, let's just get it rolling.

Sean:

Before you say some things that you can take back.

Sean:

No, say them

John:

full disclosure.

John:

We tried recording before this and we had a huge five minute discussion, but

John:

luckily Josh, his internet went to shit.

John:

So let's just take that out of the audio altogether.

Sean:

Josh has dial up internet saved the future of this podcast because I

John:

was about to quit.

John:

John was ready to quit.

John:

All right.

John:

So if you haven't heard what Reddit on wikis all about, I don't think

John:

I need to explain what the show is because quite frankly, we don't get

John:

it either, but if he'd been around for the past nine episodes, then

John:

you know what the fucking vibes is.

John:

But before we get started, we have some few housekeeping announcements.

John:

You guys ready for some shout outs real quick?

John:

Oh yeah.

John:

Yeah, but I think we lost Josh again.

John:

Just straight up.

John:

Not on

Sean:

here.

Sean:

I was like, man, he's really quiet.

Sean:

He's really quiet right

John:

now.

Sean:

let me just

John:

we're back, baby.

John:

Oh, Mike,

Sean:

Josh.

Josh:

Hey, what I miss?

Sean:

Holy shit.

John:

Okay.

John:

So what's the last thing you

Josh:

heard?

Josh:

We made the mode dial up.

Josh:

Joke.

Sean:

That was a while ago.

Sean:

Oh

John:

my God.

John:

All right.

John:

So we received a review on pod chaser from Canadian spirit, and it reads as this

John:

quote, if indie podcasts had supergroups Reddit on Wiki would be one of them.

John:

They're instant chemistry as hosts and ability to play off one another

John:

is a goddamn gift to podcasting.

John:

We can, we can learn a lot from Josh, John.

John:

Wow.

John:

That's so nice.

Josh:

Such a Canadian Canadian thing to say, got to love it.

John:

And I think that that review would have been so

John:

perfect for your superhero theme.

Josh:

Oh, that's true.

Josh:

Damn it

Sean:

just really fucked that one up.

Sean:

Right.

Josh:

I'm adding it into mine.

Josh:

I'm cutting your boys and putting it into the beginning of mine.

John:

And just a few more items before we get started with this episode.

John:

Just want to say thank you for everyone.

John:

That's been engaging with us and sharing our episodes on Twitter.

John:

So the rest of the wicked maniacs, we just want to announce as well that we

John:

have an easier way for you to reach us on social media or all our episodes.

John:

You can check us out on Reddit on wiki.com.

John:

You can actually leave us a review on the site, have all our info

John:

transcripts, if you want to read us.

John:

And it's not correct, but it's okay.

John:

All the way.

John:

And we just want to make the experience seamless for you all.

John:

But I also want to say thank you to a couple of people who not

John:

only read us reviews, but also left us interactions on Twitter.

John:

Just want us to take the time to say thank you to some of our loyal Wiki maniacs,

John:

huge shout out to Louis at GrubHub.

John:

Aaron from my hat to say it.

John:

Dustin from Sandman stories, Lindsay from yield crime at it's celly.

John:

Okay.

John:

Dr.

John:

Jules for Middleby that Jade Ben at kinky stuff.

John:

And sir red at red anatomy.

John:

And speaking of Jabe, John, I'm going to need you to read a tweet that we got.

Sean:

Oh, easy peasy.

Sean:

I'm Filipino.

Sean:

This should be easy to do.

Sean:

Right.

Sean:

I speak to Gallo all the time.

Sean:

We've been learning together.

Sean:

We go on.

Sean:

I know I've been teaching you actually.

Sean:

That's what it was.

Sean:

All right, here we go.

Sean:

Perfect to gala coming in 3, 2, 1.

Sean:

Okay.

John:

Lang Boba Caio

Sean:

bucket, Neo Cina, Genito friends, Nao bucket book, guy.

Sean:

Kidding.

Sean:

I love this kid, the voice drama and everything.

Sean:

I If you want to revoke my Philippine on this that's quite all right.

Sean:

I accept it.

Sean:

Again, Gina Janata.

Sean:

I don't know that one.

Sean:

You're

John:

not gonna lock, you know, get Nieto.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

Gina.

John:

Oh, you're seeing Ben Veneto, bro though.

Sean:

He's Italian.

Sean:

Oh my God.

John:

Oh Lord.

John:

Chef's kiss.

John:

I got beautiful.

Sean:

I'm born and raised in Texas baby.

John:

Any special shout outs that you guys want to do boys before we get started?

John:

I mean, I get just

Sean:

like, like, I think you covered it, but just another,

Sean:

thank you from me as well.

Sean:

Just thank you guys for always interacting with us on social media, Instagram, Tik,

Sean:

TOK, Twitter, or wherever you do it.

Sean:

And we appreciate all of it.

Sean:

And yeah.

Sean:

Thanks for listening.

Sean:

Thanks for not canceling me.

Sean:

And yeah, I hope you guys enjoy the rest of our episode.

Josh:

Just to be anti whatever you guys are going to say.

Josh:

I hate their reviews.

Josh:

Stop it, please.

Josh:

I hate those.

Josh:

I hate the, the interaction.

Josh:

Leave

John:

me alone.

John:

So this is

Sean:

Josh's last episode.

Sean:

We're looking for a new host, maybe Jay and,

John:

Preferably a Canadian cause we need, we need our demographic, a white Canadian.

Josh:

Oh God.

Josh:

There's so

Sean:

many of us we'll hit up becoming Filipino guy.

Sean:

It will be a perfect

John:

fit.

John:

Yes.

John:

So now that's all the way today.

John:

I will be telling you the story of the Donner party.

John:

John Josh, any idea or any hypothesis, but the Donner party is or who they are.

Sean:

I know something with eating people.

Sean:

Yes.

Sean:

I'm actually sort of on the money with this one.

Sean:

I feel like unlike all the other episodes.

Sean:

Yeah.

Josh:

I feel Shawn's nailed it with that.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Eating people.

Josh:

That's that's what I know too.

Sean:

That's the extent of my knowledge.

John:

That's that's pretty spot on.

John:

I think that's the most click baity description that we can think of.

Josh:

Did you learn that from your your girlfriend or fiance?

Josh:

Did she teach you about that one?

Josh:

Cause she's in the, to the truth.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

She's, she's threatened me if you don't do this or that, and

Sean:

we're going to Donner party it up.

Sean:

And I was like, oh shit.

Josh:

You better watch your back.

Josh:

We'll watch your back for you in the webcam.

Josh:

We'll see if that,

Sean:

I'm mostly doing this podcast is just just for evidence

Sean:

should the inevitable happen?

Sean:

You know what I mean?

John:

Hey, Elise, Elise, you have a huge community to cover your case.

John:

My guy.

John:

Yeah.

John:

Yeah.

John:

Please, please do it.

John:

Let's get started with this episode.

John:

Shall we?

John:

Yeah.

John:

So according to Wikipedia, the Donner party sometimes called the Donna

John:

Reed party was a group of American pioneers who migrated to California

John:

in a wagon train from the Midwest, the laid by a multitude of them.

John:

They spent the winter of 1846 to 1847 snowbound in the

John:

Sierra Nevada mountain range.

John:

Some of the migrants resorted to John.

John:

Got it right to cannibalism, survive, eating the bodies of those who had succumb

John:

to starvation sickness and extreme cold Donner party department, Missouri on

John:

the Oregon trail in the spring of 18.

John:

Behind many other pioneer families who were attempting

John:

to make the same Overland trip.

John:

The journey west usually took between four and six months, but the Donner

John:

party was slowed after electing to follow a new route called the Hastings

John:

cutoff, which bypass established trails.

John:

And instead cross the Rocky mountains was not true.

John:

And the great salt lake desert in present day, Utah desolate and rugged terrain and

John:

the difficulties they later encountered while traveling along the humble river

John:

and present day, Nevada resulted in the loss of many cattle and wagons and the

John:

vision soon formed within the group.

John:

By early November, the migrants had reached the Sierra Nevada, but became

John:

trapped by an early heavy snowfall near Truckee lake high in the mountains.

John:

Their food supplies ran dangerously low and in mid December, some of

John:

the groups set out on foot to.

John:

Rescuers from California attempted to reach the migrants, but the first relief

John:

party did not arrive until the middle of February, 1847, almost four months after

John:

the wagon train became trapped of the 87 members of the party, 48 survived.

John:

The ordeal and historians have described the episode as one of the

John:

most fascinating tragedies in California history and the, in the entire record

John:

of American westward migration.

Josh:

I mean, I, I, as you read it, I do recall a lot of that.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

I mean, kudos to them for trying to cross the Oregon trail.

Josh:

That was not easy.

Josh:

My ancestors were way too scared to do it.

Josh:

So, so that's why we're over here.

Josh:

They were like, we'll go north instead of

John:

west.

John:

It's not necessarily a bad thing.

John:

So hopefully it's colder.

Sean:

So and shitty internet, apparently very shitty.

Josh:

First that reference the whole

Sean:

time, the whole time you were reading, I was like, man,

Sean:

there has to be some kind of like journaled, Oregon trail erotic

John:

fan fiction out

Sean:

there.

Sean:

There's there's gotta be a way.

John:

Are you looking for it right now?

Sean:

No, it's not my episode.

Sean:

I don't want to steam roll, but future,

John:

right.

John:

I need to park this wagon.

John:

Yeah.

Sean:

Day 46.

Sean:

All I'm craving is sausage.

Sean:

There's gotta be, there's gotta be something like, I

Sean:

just know wicked maniacs.

Sean:

If you find it, feel free to DM Josh, he'll read it out loud to his girlfriend.

Sean:

It'll be

Josh:

great.

Josh:

Or if you can't find it right.

Josh:

And then we should have a Columbus city initiative, so you can write

Josh:

the best fanfic in our audience.

Josh:

I like that word of us

Sean:

even truly, truly terrified.

Sean:

I don't want bad fiction about us.

Sean:

Oh no, no.

Sean:

I'm not about that.

John:

Please.

John:

Don't immediately quit the show.

John:

Has that ever happened, please?

John:

God.

John:

Fucking talking about cookies and sh I'm good.

Josh:

I'm good.

Josh:

There's enough clips of us saying shit.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

That'd be easy to pull.

Josh:

Content were

Sean:

given to me, Sean baked a dozen cookies, anxiously

Sean:

awaiting the arrival of John

John:

and Josh.

John:

I feel like he thought

Sean:

about this.

Sean:

It all just comes to my head.

Sean:

My guy it's easy to do.

John:

That's just how the cookie crumbles.

John:

Oh God.

John:

Oh boy.

John:

All right.

John:

Let's keep going with this story before we.

John:

No, let's not do that.

John:

Okay.

John:

So crying.

John:

Yes.

John:

So who are the Donner party?

John:

So according to history.com, the group was led by Jacob and George

John:

Donner in the spring of 1840.

John:

Like I mentioned earlier, the group of almost 90 wanted to make their

John:

way to California to get in and out of course, but instead of trusting

John:

a route that works, they decided to take a risk with a new route.

John:

That's supposedly shorter, but of course it didn't go that way.

John:

Otherwise we wouldn't have heard about this.

John:

Mm.

John:

Oh, let me tell you now we all have GPS handy, Danny to us.

John:

And my dumb ass is still trying to come up with routes to

John:

like how to get places faster.

John:

Like, I don't know if you guys ever done this, but every time there's

John:

a GPS, like you, you play try to beat the time as an extreme sport.

John:

Do you guys ever do

Sean:

that?

Sean:

Definitely.

Sean:

You think I can only get there in 30 minutes, you get there in 25.

Sean:

Risking hundreds of dollars in speeding tickets just to get

Sean:

through five minutes earlier, it

John:

sounds like that's the, that's the most excitement I have in my

John:

life nowadays, which is not cool.

John:

Oh God.

Josh:

Did we not excite you?

John:

Yes.

John:

Might write some fan fiction about it.

John:

Oh, I was speeding left and right.

John:

Oh God.

John:

I gripped my steering wheel faster, harder.

John:

I

Sean:

look over Dominic thereto staring at me.

Josh:

We're a family office.

Sean:

He holds me close face to face we're family now.

John:

Oh God.

John:

Anyways, the dire party got this supposedly route from some dude

John:

named Lansford Hasting, which I find super ironic that his name was, has

John:

hasty in it, but it was anything.

John:

Taste that's took

Sean:

them forever.

Sean:

That's some dumb found dead irony.

John:

I like it.

John:

I like it.

John:

Hastings ventured ahead of the crew.

John:

He left all them fucking Donner party and the group eventually arrived at the

John:

head of I dunno if it's Weeber or Webber.

John:

So let's go with Weaver, Weaver, canyon, or Weber canyon somewhere in present

John:

day, Utah and their good old Hastings left a note stuck in a little stick for a

John:

Donner party to see, but the note pretty much indicated, and this is not a quote,

John:

but pretty much was like, ah, shit.

John:

It was at this point.

John:

That they knew they fucked up.

John:

You're telling me

Josh:

that's not a

Sean:

quote much.

John:

It's not a quote, but I want to say he said it nice Hastings,

John:

overestimated the actual difficulty of the route that they took.

John:

And I don't know if any of you are gamers out here, but if you guys ever

John:

played dark souls, By any chance?

John:

No, no, I heard it was too

Sean:

hard.

Sean:

Your boy likes easy peasy.

Sean:

You know what I'm saying?

Sean:

That's exactly

John:

what it is.

John:

And to Mario kart.

John:

Yeah.

Sean:

I'm talking to Matt and Matt, Matt and Albuquerque

John:

mode.

John:

Oh no, this shit is hard, bro.

John:

Like I played it for like one hour and I gave up cause I was so fresh.

John:

And it caused me a lot of sleepless nights because I'm like, fuck this

John:

game and you already don't sleep.

John:

And I really don't sleep.

John:

Yeah.

John:

So anyways, keep it going.

John:

Hastings suggested that the group should make camp and wait

John:

for him to scout the road ahead.

John:

And when he did that, eight days passed and nothing Hastings is still

John:

out and about sort of party sent a messenger to find him only for

John:

Hastings to then tell the messenger to relate to the group that yeah.

John:

Fam maybe we should have took the other.

John:

That was official.

Sean:

We fucked up

John:

fucking Hastings.

John:

Yes, pretty much.

John:

There was some trouble brewing, you know, spending more than a week using a

John:

supplies was troubled enough as it is.

John:

But if there the group decided to go back home and where they originated

John:

in Fort Bridger, not only would all they lose the progress that they

John:

made, but it might cause a fortune to restock and not to mention the mental

John:

fatigue that it caused, caused them to pretty much say like, fuck, we got.

John:

So the party made an executive decision as a group to keep soldiering on.

John:

And you were out that they decided to take this time around is even

John:

more difficult than the previous one would so many barriers already.

John:

Wow.

Sean:

Double

John:

down.

John:

It is a double-down and it's just a series of unfortunate events.

John:

Okay.

John:

Let's keep going.

John:

So legends of america.com has it, that the group made it past the Wasatch

John:

mountains around August of that year, the group was struggling both physically and

John:

mentally, which I don't blame them at all.

John:

A member of the group passed away because of exhaustion and

John:

supplies were starting to run low.

John:

The party was already pissed that as it is that Hastings

John:

pretty much screwed them over.

John:

And now they're starting to slowly turn on each other.

John:

Again, another gaming reference, anyone here plays red, dead redemption,

Josh:

fucking love that.

John:

Perfect.

John:

So you could relate.

John:

This is like Dutch John Marston and an Arthur Morgan gang, pretty much.

John:

And I don't want to be spoilers, but if you keep progressing

John:

towards the game, shit goes down.

Sean:

Do they eat each other?

John:

Yes.

John:

Oh, they don't do that.

Sean:

Sure.

Josh:

Oh, in the fanfic I wrote the, do

Sean:

we need you to read that later

John:

on Josh?

John:

I feel like you're taking up like taking in some of our personalities

John:

now just started making puns now you're all into fan fiction.

John:

Yeah.

John:

I don't have a

Josh:

personality, so I build it off of other people.

Josh:

Yes.

Josh:

Was the older ones in the group here.

Josh:

You're corrupting

Sean:

me.

John:

Okay.

Sean:

Chill out.

John:

Oh my God.

John:

You can rent a car for cheap now you're old.

John:

Like us.

John:

That's true.

John:

Okay.

John:

So Hastings laid out another plan that they would get to the great salt lake

John:

desert that it would only take two days.

John:

But at this point, I don't know why I should trust fucking Hastings.

John:

This guy is just messing it all up for them.

John:

And talk to me what his

Sean:

resume was prior to this.

Sean:

Like, how did they address this guy?

Sean:

He seems to just keep bucking up

John:

Craig's Craig's list back then, or notice boards.

Josh:

He ran tourists, local park.

John:

So he did say that it will take about two days to get to this

John:

new path, to the great salt lake desert, but he failed to factor.

John:

That the sand was much more difficult to navigate, especially

John:

with wagons all around classic.

John:

This is a whole clusterfuck already smart wagon started to break some

John:

livestock ran away because they freaked out water supply pretty much became

John:

non-existent because it was in a desert.

John:

It took them five days to track the desert.

John:

And everyone is just pretty much defeated at that

Josh:

point.

Josh:

I'm confused as the salt lake desert not have any money.

Josh:

There's.

Josh:

Yeah,

Sean:

there's definitely a lake, but mostly desert outwardly

John:

does it?

John:

I would probably at this point.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Wow.

Josh:

Get some great lakes over there, guys.

Josh:

Geez.

John:

Great lakes is in Michigan.

John:

Pretty much Canada.

John:

Michigan's pretty much Canada.

Josh:

It's north and a lot of Canada.

Josh:

So

Sean:

yeah,

John:

so the group was starting to become really desperate and they decided to

John:

send some of their younger members to go ahead and venture for two setters

John:

Ford, California to make supply run.

John:

The group kept traveling for another two weeks and they finally

John:

managed to be part of the trail that Hastings originally mapped out.

John:

So it took them all that time for them to get to the original

John:

spot that they're split.

John:

But because of how long it took the tension starting to be sky high.

John:

And as they make their way through Nevada, that's when shit started

John:

to go down, watch Kevin Hart.

John:

Ah, shit.

John:

It's about to go down.

John:

And there was an incident that happened where two members

John:

got tangled with their wagons.

John:

So they're pretty much riding next to each other.

John:

The wagons got tangled, but one of the dudes kept whipping the fuck

John:

out of the ox that was driving the.

John:

The wagon, James Reed, one of the quote, unquote leaders of the group.

John:

And this is not a quote.

John:

I just made this up.

John:

He pretty much was like, Hey, yo, y'all need a, you need to chill the

John:

fuck out with this, this wagon, man.

John:

You're beating the shit out of it.

John:

You're chill.

John:

It's not right.

John:

And the other home boy, he wasn't having it.

John:

He was tired.

John:

He was exhausted.

John:

He was probably hungry.

John:

He was pissed off.

John:

So he kept smacking the docks.

John:

He just kept beating it up.

John:

So, boom boy, read here.

John:

Got pissed.

John:

Didn't even think about it.

John:

Grabbed the knife and he stabbed the dude in the stomach and killed him.

John:

Oh gosh.

Josh:

It seems like a bit of a re overreaction.

Josh:

I mean, that is absolutely.

Josh:

Yeah, it's an animal cruelty.

Josh:

I'll give him that, but like just take the whip from him.

John:

True.

John:

And, and then, and there was kind of like conflicting sources

John:

how the, the exact killing him.

John:

But different sources stated that James Reed shot him.

John:

Others were stabbed.

John:

I saw more stabbing, more prominently, but for the sake I'm going with the stabbing.

John:

Because like I said, I, it seems like more of a crime of passion,

John:

more than a crime of impulse.

John:

You know what I mean?

John:

It's more personal.

John:

It sounded very personal.

John:

So, and the group was living, he was, they were pissed.

John:

They were like, dude, there should never have been a stabbing of any sorts.

John:

Like that's just fucking.

John:

You know, everyone is exhausted, hungry, delusional, and they

John:

just couldn't have any murderer sitting on a group pretty much.

John:

So they lobbied, they lobbied, they, they, they went on a meeting,

John:

they huddled up, they had a choice.

John:

They, they, they were like, should we execute him?

John:

But, but ultimately cooler heads prevailed.

John:

They ultimately decided.

John:

He's banished and he would just have to fend for himself.

John:

So they kicked him out of the group before it gets any jucier boys.

John:

You know, we have some bills to pay, so we'll be right.

John:

After a few words from

Josh:

sponsors.

Josh:

Nice.

Josh:

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Josh:

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John:

going back to read it on Wiki.

John:

And we're just going to jump right along after that

John:

cliffhanger of a murderous plot.

John:

But you know, there's a saying, right when it rains, it pours.

Josh:

Oh, I thought you were going to say what happens in Nevada stays in Nevada.

Sean:

I mean,

John:

they couldn't stay or else they died.

John:

That's fine.

John:

That's just that, just, that just pertains to Las Vegas.

John:

I don't know about any other parts of Nevada.

Josh:

No, no.

Josh:

It's the entire state.

John:

Cause I'll tell you what if I, this should a Reno in angles thing.

Sean:

That's fair.

John:

Yes.

John:

But you know, like all their luck starting to kind of compound,

John:

like it's starting to build up.

John:

So their cattle became all there.

John:

Pretty much majority of their cattle became really exhausted from the trip or

John:

people began to die because of exhaustion.

John:

And what does life do to make them feel better?

John:

Not a damn thing because this party was done ambush by Paiute

John:

Indians that resulted in the death of 21 of their oxygens payback

Sean:

itch.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

I don't blame, I don't blame the native Americans one bit.

Sean:

Yeah.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

It's a free for all at that point, boys and you

John:

lost.

John:

Of Oaks that died, but they had, they kind of had some sort of a good luck life

John:

through somewhat of a bone towards them.

John:

And one of the young men that they sent, they sent ahead to California

John:

actually made their way back to the group with mules beef flower guides

John:

that could actually help them.

John:

And.

John:

They had a good news that the last stretch that they have will be kind of

John:

difficult, but once they clear it, then it should just be easy sailing from there.

John:

So hope starting to come back to them.

John:

They're just like, alright cool.

John:

Like we just got to get this over this hurdle and then we'll be good to go.

John:

That's awesome that the

Sean:

cannibalism happens after all of that.

Sean:

They got all the meat supplies last leg of the stretch, but

Sean:

then they're like, fuck it.

Sean:

It's time

John:

now.

John:

You'll see.

John:

You'll see when that happens.

John:

They're like,

Josh:

we're tired of.

Josh:

Regular food.

Josh:

I want to try something exotic, like Zack, Dave, over there, he looks

Sean:

juicy.

Sean:

Motherfucking Hastings looking pretty good right now.

Sean:

Looking like a snack.

Sean:

Yeah,

Josh:

he'd make a good water bird.

Sean:

There you go, Josh.

John:

Oh my gosh.

John:

That'd be a terrible Patty melt, but yeah, also I don't want to let this kind

John:

of go unsaid because we were talking.

John:

In a way, payback that the native Indians did that.

John:

The word a young man went to get supplies.

John:

It was in Fort Sutter, California, which I believe is modern

John:

day Sacramento right now.

John:

And I don't want to just gloss over the fact that, you know, there's a lot of

John:

indigenous people that suffered many injustices that were being stripped

John:

away from their land being forced to slavery and other inhumane acts.

John:

It's kind of sad, but I think that's a topic.

John:

I highlighted.

John:

People should look into to learn more about that.

John:

But for the sake of our continuation, I'll keep on going.

John:

But I just want to acknowledge that there's dark history and pain behind that.

John:

I don't think anyone, no, no group should ever suffer, you know, but they're still.

Sean:

They're still suffering.

Sean:

It's not over.

Sean:

It's a lot of injustice happening to this day.

Sean:

Super fucked up.

Sean:

I don't think there's enough

Josh:

people aware of it.

Josh:

I was just going to say you ever heard of residential schools because those are

Josh:

a big thing in Canada anyway, right now.

Josh:

Oh they were basically religious schools that would kidnap

Josh:

native American children and.

Josh:

Take them away from their families and forced them to learn English and forget

Josh:

their native culture and language and abused and killed many, many of them.

Josh:

So a lot of this is coming out right now.

Josh:

They just found a mass grave of one of the schools like six months ago

John:

that

Sean:

mass graves.

John:

Yeah.

John:

It's not good.

John:

Is that the post with the bunch of shoes?

Josh:

Yes, actually it is.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

That's a big thing in Canada right now.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Gosh, I think it happened in the states as well, but not to

Josh:

the degree it did in Canada.

John:

Okay.

John:

And I don't want to just, you know, like spit out some random things that

John:

we, I, I don't have much knowledge about it and I just highly suggest

John:

people to just kind of look into it and like what Sean said, there's

John:

still a lot of injustices going on.

John:

So if this is a perfect time to get educated in our non-educational crappy

John:

research, though, That's kind of like, that's kind of a takeaway that we want

John:

to give you, just look it up and please be educated by it and help people out

Josh:

just in case.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

I actually might do residential school someday.

Josh:

So that might be a topic we'd get on.

Josh:

Absolutely.

John:

Cool.

John:

All right.

John:

Moving on.

John:

Speaking of natives, I've seen something interesting in a sub Reddit title today

John:

I learned and the username more William.

John:

Pretty much took into account that the natives around the area, there was

John:

a, the natives around the area that pretty much offered the Donner party,

John:

some food, but they would leave them deer carcass, bunnies, but for some

John:

reason the party turned them away and even tried to shoot at the Wushu tribe

John:

when they would come near, I guess.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Okay.

Josh:

So if I'm putting myself in their shoes they've been attacked.

Josh:

The native people and they're racist enough to not be

Josh:

able to tell the difference.

Josh:

So, so they're probably just shooting at any of them.

Josh:

I'm just assuming they're all the same.

Josh:

So, you know what they probably deserve what comes to them by the sounds

John:

of it.

John:

Yeah.

John:

And then that's actually something that I put down and I was like, you know, if

John:

that's actually a true account, I think it's karma biting them in the ass and it

John:

still kind of just accentuates the fact.

John:

You know, native Americans were like looked down upon, even though they

John:

were giving you respect that they were giving you beans to survive.

John:

You still turn them down.

John:

But again, devil's advocate.

John:

I do understand that they were jaded about the situation

John:

because they did get ambushed.

John:

So I think that's probably one way to kind of look at it too.

John:

All right to continue on the bad luck kept going.

John:

The bad luck did not stop for this group.

John:

And one of the de facto patriarchs of the group, George daughter had an

John:

incident involving him cutting his hand so severe that it resulted in.

John:

To have to stay behind LA what started a chain of events

John:

that had dire consequences?

John:

Like, because of this delay, this is probably one we're going to

John:

start getting into the eating part.

John:

Right.

John:

I have so many

Josh:

questions.

Josh:

How do we cut your hands so bad?

Josh:

You can't walk.

Josh:

That's my question or ride, you know, like you can get a Knox maybe.

John:

No, maybe it's just like, he couldn't function because he was losing.

Josh:

I dunno, leave them behind at that

John:

point.

John:

Right.

John:

But he was kind of like the leader of the group.

John:

So they finally felt like he needed to be there.

Josh:

I dunno.

Josh:

It doesn't seem like he's been doing a great job so far, so.

Sean:

Nope.

Sean:

Yep.

Sean:

Anybody leading this group at this point should not have any leadership roles.

Sean:

Should we be regulated to everybody else?

Sean:

Everybody for themselves at this point?

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Classic classic Americans electing terrible leaders.

Josh:

Oh, that's my that's my one.

Josh:

I get one, an episode kids.

Josh:

Come on.

John:

Do you, do you get a free shot?

John:

And I did mention that there were dire consequences involved.

John:

Because he, they had to stay behind for, for a couple of days.

John:

Snow began to fall, which hindered their movement.

John:

As the group could not proceed any longer.

John:

The party had to create makeshift tents, cabins, you know, just

John:

to stay warm weeks passed.

John:

And a snow storm was still coming down pretty hard.

John:

A rescue mission from those who made it to Fort Sutter, it became

John:

nearly impossible to do because of the severe weather conditions.

John:

And on Thanksgiving of that, The party had to make the decision slayed their

John:

last oxygen in order to survive had their last Thanksgiving feasts involving

Sean:

normal food.

Sean:

God, here we go.

John:

Yep.

John:

Let's do it.

John:

This is when it gets to juicy and not in a bad

Sean:

choice of words, John choice of word, choice of words.

John:

Food was becoming.

John:

An efforts to hunt was unsuccessful and the group had to make the

John:

drastic diet change, eating nothing but bones bark, or whatever the

John:

hell they can find to survive.

John:

Whatever's on the floor.

John:

Whatever's on the wasteland.

John:

They were just like, fuck it.

John:

I'm going to.

John:

I want to survive.

John:

People were dying left and right.

John:

And whether it's from exhaustion, starvation, frozen to death, Donner

John:

party, hats resort to potentially the one thing they are most known for.

John:

John.

John:

Would you like to say that for us?

John:

What were they known for the most cannibalism baby S sir.

John:

All right.

John:

So the party who stayed alive, ate the bodies of their

John:

group members that perished.

John:

Oh, well,

Sean:

at least at least, you know, they were dead already, you know?

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

But then,

Josh:

then the meat's going bad.

Josh:

You want fresh?

Sean:

Oh God.

Sean:

Is that what it turns to?

Sean:

Or do they just eat the people that died now?

John:

Ah, there's more, there were, there was even an instance, and this is when

John:

this, when Josh kind of gets it right.

John:

There was even an instance, according to online nevada.org, that Franklin

John:

graves, very ironic name, the biggest names, just write itself.

John:

Perfect name as his dying wish told his daughters to eat his flesh to survive.

Josh:

That's gotta be a couple of years of therapy for them if they survive.

John:

So reluctantly, the daughters had to do, had to do what they needed to do

John:

to survive, or their father could possibly be the reason for a potential extended

John:

life for them, even though the measure to attain that was so drastic on the

John:

flip side of things, a member committed another murder, killing two weaker

John:

party members, so he can eat the room.

Sean:

By himself, he needed, he needed to kill two people for just

John:

him.

Sean:

Yes.

Sean:

He's a hungry man.

Sean:

Okay.

John:

And ultimately seven people on that party had been cannibalized for

John:

some of the party members to have a shot of surviving out of how many, sorry.

John:

I think 40, almost 50, I believe.

John:

Oh

Josh:

God.

Josh:

So almost a fifth of them.

Josh:

Jesus.

John:

Yes.

John:

So James Reed, who was banished by the group formed a search party to get his

John:

family back that came in, came in waves pretty much when the parties arrived

John:

to save them, they saw people who were described as pretty much walking skeletons

John:

and the grizzly scene of half eaten bodies horrified the Calvary that tried to.

Sean:

They look like some zombies.

John:

Yes.

John:

And there was like bodies, half Ian on the floor.

Sean:

Yo, I would not have tried to save them.

Sean:

I think I would've just been like, all right.

Sean:

Put them out of their misery guys.

John:

Same.

John:

So yeah, that was the story of where my week about the Donner party and how we

John:

should not trust shortcuts sometimes.

John:

But let's, let's kind of discuss this a little bit, boys, besides

John:

taking a risk on a new route.

John:

What else did you think that went wrong with that?

Josh:

Well definitely refusing the help from the native population.

Josh:

Probably the that's definitely.

Josh:

Yeah, no good.

Josh:

I'd like they had the rabbit so they could have taken the rabbit foot for good

Josh:

luck, at least from the native people.

Josh:

You

Sean:

know, I think, I think at that, at that point, they were

Sean:

like, you know, why eat rabbit when.

Sean:

Two weeks.

Sean:

I can just eat Jacob,

John:

Jacob,

Sean:

Jacob, the

Josh:

guy, the guy who killed two people has been planning it for weeks.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

He was like, I've been skipping out on rabbit and Noxon

Sean:

for weeks it's time, baby.

Sean:

He's like, I can have a main event.

Sean:

The main dish

John:

he's like.

John:

Josh is going to get mad because this is a wrestling term or a wrestling person, but

John:

instead of Jake, the snake Roberts does that fool was Jake, the stake Roberts.

John:

That's good.

John:

Oh my God.

John:

What about, what about as far as Hastings playing a role, do you think back then?

John:

And I know like we're millennials, I think we kind of live in.

John:

Interesting time when you kinda didn't have GPS because you have

John:

to print everything out and now everything is like guided on your cars.

John:

Do you think you could have survived back then in that kind of ordeal?

Sean:

Oh,

Josh:

hell no.

Josh:

I don't think I could survive.

John:

I definitely wouldn't have survived 50 years ago.

John:

What are you boy?

Sean:

I've always thought about like cut.

Sean:

What, what it would be like to not use GPS and just like go to a gas station

Sean:

and get one of those map books and just fucking try and do it yourself.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

And I've never done it because that sounds insane to do.

John:

Yeah, you had me fucked up.

John:

When you tell me go north.

John:

I'm like, where'd that at east where that is?

Sean:

Which,

Josh:

which way left and right.

Josh:

That's

John:

yes, that's all I know.

John:

I last question for you, boys.

John:

What would you have done differently to survive?

John:

And obviously besides cannibalism, what, what would you have done?

John:

I

Sean:

went to Canada with Josh, his ancestors.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

We could

Sean:

be brothers at this point and no part.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

Not join a group led by a guy named Hastings and another guy named graves.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

A guy named Lance slow takes his time.

Josh:

That's his last name?

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

I don't know.

Josh:

I don't know what I would have done differently.

Josh:

It's hard to say because the Oregon trail sounded like it sucked for

Josh:

everyone that went across it.

Josh:

So I probably video game doesn't

Sean:

help our point of view either.

John:

I always, I always died.

Sean:

I don't think I've ever won Oregon trail.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

So the odds are against you anyway.

Josh:

I would have waited for them to build a train in Boston or something,

Sean:

or maybe just like they sent out that dude to California by himself.

Sean:

Why not just a fucking wait for him to get back to you.

Josh:

I don't know.

Josh:

Or volunteer to be that dude.

Josh:

And then you go ahead and then never go back.

Josh:

You just stay you say, fuck it.

Sean:

Stay in hangout with the natives, man.

Sean:

Yeah, they got bunnies.

Sean:

They got everything.

Sean:

The nice,

Josh:

the ones that didn't attack them, the ones that were giving them food.

John:

with them the way Roanoke did, right?

John:

Yeah, exactly.

John:

Yeah.

John:

They're asking something, Sean.

Sean:

Oh, I was just going to say, we don't know technically the timeline

Sean:

of if those natives attack them first or if the, the, the trail, the

Sean:

people in the trail were shooting and disrespecting the rabbit.

Josh:

Well, that's fair.

Josh:

It is from like the white man's perspective.

Josh:

So you never know it's a definitely could be whitewashed as they say,

Sean:

they say a lot of history could be, you know what

Sean:

I

Josh:

mean?

Josh:

Well, and also like they are encroaching on their land, like they're moving west to

Josh:

develop and I'm sure they're not for that.

Josh:

So

Sean:

definitely not thrilled about that manifest destiny thing, huh?

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

Yeah.

Josh:

They're like, Hey, we've been here for longer.

Josh:

What

Sean:

are you doing?

John:

Yeah.

John:

They were like manifested this Dick instead.

John:

Get out of my land.

John:

Oh yeah.

John:

What about you?

John:

WIC.

John:

Maniacs.

John:

What do you think about the Donner party?

John:

Let us know your thoughts.

John:

Just again, you can check out Reddit on wiki.com and leave us a message.

John:

Leave us review and all that.

John:

We are John, Josh and Sean, and we are signing out.

John:

Remember, if you saw something that kept you up at night,

John:

you must have read it the way.

John:

Peace.

John:

Bye bye.

Sean:

Read it on a wiki.com.

Sean:

Read it on wiki.com.

Sean:

Read it on Wiki

John:

dot on Wiki that I thought were a horrible harmonizing

Josh:

ever follow a man pasting.